Q + A with Nate (two sections)

These are a couple of responses from my, topics are nice thread.

Posted by Kimo333:
Ok, so I went to the Mongolian BBQ last night...There's a fun topic right?

I can't remember any bad times that I've had at Khan's. I have learned a couple of things that have been helpful to me with my travels there. Always take off your tie. There will be splatter at Khan's, and your shirt will get dirty. Ties have to be dry cleaned, take them off and let the dress shirt get dirty. This has been especially helpful to remember on Sunday Afternoons. Secondly, leave the noodles until last, no matter where they have placed them on the buffet line. Adding the dome of noodles makes it hard to put anything besides the sauce on top. Pile on high first, the noodles seem to stick well to whatever you put on under them. Lastly, always decide you want the next plate quickly. If you pause a couple of minutes, you will regret it. If you aren't hungry enough, you know, if you can't decide, get up right away and start filling. Waiting is death to the appetite.

Posted by JAk (who for some reason capitalized two letters of his initials):
Does God hold a grudge against humans? Behind this question was the original sin. If God isn't holding a grudge against mankind, then why would everybody be born into sin because of one mans mistake?

Just a note for everyone... I am answering this question off the cuff, as I would have had I been at the small group that it was asked. I have not done sufficient research to be 100% confident in my decision as being the only, or absolute right decision, but I am comfortable currently with everything I will type. Just remember, this is my OPINION and is not THE answer.

Does God hold a grudge against humans? No. Humans have broken God's heart. We've rebelled, we've left him, we've discounted his name, we've worshiped things that aren't him. This at one point in history did cause God to "start over." God brought flood. Obviously, God didn't have a grudge against all humans, as he allowed Noah and his family to live, even warning them years in advance. It even caused God to want to do this again. Moses argued with God about his initial response in wanting to kill his own "chosen people" (Israel) and God reminds us of the covenant he has made never to destroy us all again. These are both old testament understandings of God. Jesus adds more to the puzzle. Through him we encounter a God that is in love with all people, not just the "chosen people" and who is working for good in all situations. If you believe in some different kind of God, I don't know what biblical support you'd have for Him.

Behind this question was original sin. If God isn't holding a grudge against mankind, then why would everyone be born into sin because of one man's mistake? My initial comment then, as it is now takes us to looking closer at what is referred to as "original sin." The eating of the fruit in the Garden on Eden. My sarcastic response will be to point out that this original sin was two people and not "one man's sin." My second point will address the question much more formally.

Adam and Eve used their free will to eat of the "forbidden fruit." This fruit was from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Until this point, no human did, or was created to know good and evil. We were created to enjoy and to multiply on this planet. We were in perfect communion with God, and had no shame over our nakedness, or life in general. There was no reason to hide. Nobody was better than anyone, no values had been established as superior and no line of thinking was more right than the next. The first sin (which if I remember correctly is the only one possible at this point) was to eat the fruit of that tree. I can't think of another thing that had been commanded against before this time. The devil/serpent convinced Adam and Eve that God was holding back on them. Their sin was in distrusting God and trusting the lie that they could become like, or better than God. So they ate. As they did, a few important things happened. One, and less consequential, they were punished as individuals by God. I talked about these in a previous post. Eve was cursed with pain in childbearing (which passed down to all women) and Adam was cursed to toil and work with the land to be disappointed and unsatisfied (again passed down to all men). This however isn't the most important thing to me, nor do these punishments have anything to do with us being "born into sin."

Here is the more important thing that happened. Adam and Eve felt shame. They noticed they were naked, and they hid. Pride, guilt, shame, hate, discouragement, and many other negative feelings and emotions entered the world for the first time. The tree had given them "knowledge" of good and evil. In other words, we had at this point decided we could equate things as good or as bad. We began to have the ability to place value on what was good and what wasn't. Previous to this, we only knew that God said it was good, and that one thing was forbidden. Now everything is left to our own ranking system (again this is still true, is still flawed and is still wrong). We think we know what is best. We assume control over things we have no control over and we are judged by everyone we come into contact with. This was never meant to be. I'm not born into sin because I am reaping the punishment of Adam or Eve eating the fruit (those punishments are still around, but are not "original sin"). I'm born into sin the same way everyone else is. We live in a flawed world. A world flawed by our own choosing. Adam did not make this world the way it is, nor did God. The serpent/devil and humankind together have continued to decide that being in charge of right and wrong, good and evil, is our privilege. If all of humankind could get rid of this notion, original sin would cease to be something we are born into, and would become only a physical punishment during childbirth, and a toiling at work. Instead, we live in a world that is far less "good." We live in a world, from birth in a place that is "sin."

God is doing the exact opposite of holding a grudge. He is allowing and providing for us an opportunity to be reconciled to this world and most importantly to Him. He provides for us a life of freedom found in a sacrifice that he made with His son. This God has no grudge. He is currently working to make this life more abundant for us and to configure the new heaven and new earth to be "good" and ready upon our arrival.